Problem...Need help

[Microbe]

Hello, I recently bought a jammin X1CRT. I'm new to rc hobby and this is my first one, I bought it from a friend without an engine so I bought an engine its a dynamite 427 1.28 well whatever.

So yeah my friend came over and after a brief explanation of about 5 mins I had to change the whole engine myself wich means I had to remove parts from the old engine and then put it on the new one and then put that on the truggie.


[Problem start here]
So after a big afternoon of work ive got it done. I got some help from my uncle (he's good in mechanics and he's good with rc cars) so here comes the problem for some reason the starter cord got stuck so then I noticed the flywheel wasnt moving and I couldn't move it. So my uncle removed everything and replaced everything right then we started it and everything was smooth we started to drill it then we stopped the engine to fix the carburator because there wasnt enough of smoke then when we wanted to start it again the starting cord was stuck again and so the flywheel. Now I called my friend that sold me the truggie and we looked at it we redid it but this time we didn't tighten it too much like it was before. I'm gonna try toomorow.

Anyone know what the problem is is it the flywheel or the engine ? The engine is NEW BTW

Do you have to tighten everything ?

[OldSchoolRC]

hmm....sounds like the engine is very tight and it is locking at the top of the piston stroke. All my traxxas 2.5's did the same thing.

a 2 cycle motor relies on compression to ignite the fuel, and when the engines are new, the fit of the piston and sleeve can be super tight. Once it starts running and warms up, it goes ok but when it's cold it will be very tight and seem like it's locking up.

Try removing the glow plug and fuel line and see how your engine turns over - it should spin freely at that point. if that's the case, put a drop or two of after run or machine oil in there and cycle the engine for a few minutes. Should loosen things up a bit and the oil will help prevent wear - then reinstall your plug and fuelk line and try and start it normally. works great with a drill or roto start, might be a bit of a pain with a pull start. you can ever lossen the plug a little bit until it starts and then tighen it back up.

also, using a heat gun or hair dryer to warm the block before starting might help as well as it will expand the sleeve a bit and it should turn over easier.

hope that helps!

[Microbe]

okay I will try that but should I let the flywheel like that ? I mean is it supposed to be tighten a lot or just a little ?

[TMAXX JUNKIES]

Flywheel Needs To Be Tight Otherwise You Will Have Big Problems. And What Oldschool Said Is Very Accurate My Axial .28 Is A Pull Start And I Had The Same Problem Very Strong Compression At The Top Stroke . Also If That Motor Is New You ShOULD Not Adjust The Carb Yet Unless You Have Run 5-6 Tanks Of Fuel Threw It Otherwise You Will Shorten The Life Of The Motor. One Other Thing When The Motor Shuts Off And You Are Done Try And Make Sure The Piston Is At The Bottom Of It's Stroke Might Be Easier To Get A Good Pull And Started The Next Time. Good Luck And Hang In There The Reward For A Little Frustration Is Amazing Fun!!

[OldSchoolRC]

okay I will try that but should I let the flywheel like that ? I mean is it supposed to be tighten a lot or just a little ?


yes, tighten that flywheel onto the motor ALL THE WAY! If everything is installed correctly and it's a standard big block set-up, it should be resting on a little brass collet that is on the motor shaft. The flywheel will pinch the collet and that will keep the whole assembly tight on the motor shaft.

That should not be the cause of your binding and you don't want it coming loose - it can wreak havoc on your clutch internals. To check, tighten it all the way and then just try to tun it with your fingers - you should be able to feel the motor turning over a bit. Then, close that clutch up, no more work to be done there.

Mr. Maxx is right, hang in there - it gets better!

[Microbe]

oh well I just tried with the flywheel not tighten it didn't get stuck but I didn't manage to start it. I tried for a good 10 min to start it I also tried to heat it with an hair dryer because its a bit cold outside but whatever okay I will go re-tighten the flywheel and try again if it gets stuck again I will try what you said.

For the carb my uncle already adjusted it because when it started we started to drill it then like I said we stopped it because the smoke wasnt rich enough so he adjusted it and we couldn't start it anymore the flywheel was stuck.

brb...

[Microbe]

Srry for double post.

okay I just tighten the flywheel and tried to start it again the flywheel didn't stuck but I couldn't start it I guess it's just too cold outside it's 6degrees celcius so 42 degrees fahrenheit. I'll wait for my uncle or try this afternoon if the sun comes out.

Thanks for your help guys I'll give you news tonight. I still had a question I was wondering how much was worth my truggy my friend says he bought it 900$ CAD. I bought it 500$ from him without the engine, the engine cost me 170$ and the older engine he had on it was about the same price. It's a Jammin X1CRT he says he took the config of some pro whatever it's like 1 summer old... It's in good condition he gave me a big battery thing you can boost cars with he says it came with his truggy lol. Though I find 500$ a bit expensive for plastics.... I dont know how much r worth the servos... 400 was my price what do you guys think did he scam me or 500 is a good price ?

Thanks again

[Microbe]

WOOT it seems like the flywheel doesn't stuck anymore, I didn't even have to do what you said oldschool lol I'm happy because I managed to start it I found out that my battery in my glow plug starter was dead... (thats weird because it worked fine yesterday lol)

so yeah it started now I just need to drill it, I can't wait to have fun with it. Thanks everyone.

EDIT : 1 more thing whats the temperature my engine can't exceed ? http://www.dynamiterc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=DYN0895#Articles is my engine.

[TMAXX JUNKIES]

WELL THAT PRICE IS A LITTLE HIGH PROBABLY COULD HAVE GOTTEN A NEW ONE FOR THAT PRICE.AS FOR YOUR TEMP FOR YOUR MOTOR 275 AND OVER IS TOO HOT RICHEN BEFORE RUNNING ANYMORE .230-260 IS A GOOD RANGE.
WOOT it seems like the flywheel doesn't stuck anymore, I didn't even have to do what you said oldschool lol I'm happy because I managed to start it I found out that my battery in my glow plug starter was dead... (thats weird because it worked fine yesterday lol)

so yeah it started now I just need to drill it, I can't wait to have fun with it. Thanks everyone.

EDIT : 1 more thing whats the temperature my engine can't exceed ? http://www.dynamiterc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=DYN0895#Articles is my engine.

[Microbe]

okay thx, when we started it we richen it because it was going to 160 then it dropped down to 150 and was pretty much stable at 150 but imo 150 ON IDLE is a lot... what would u recommend like 100-125 fahrenheit on idle ?


I'm trying to gather as much infos as I can because I'll have to drill it and I dont wanna miss my shot.... The sheet I got seems fine its 6 steps and mainly it goesfrom 2 secs slow accel then brake slowly to like 5 sec accel to slow brake... if you got some guide that u recommend to drill it the sheet I got is the one my uncle gave me he used it to drill his evo 3.3 though it's not the same engine...

Waiting for ur tips I'm not drilling it toomorow anyway it's gonna rain all day :( and the bad thing about that is that I don't work when it rains so I have to wait all day long and watch my truggy but can't play with it damn lol

[OldSchoolRC]

150 ish should be fine for break-in, once the engine is fully broken in, the temps will go up. Remember, these engines are air-cooled, so as it sits there and idles, temps will go up slightly. once it's moving around and air starts moving over the cooling heads, it keeps the temps in check.

I agree with Tmaxx, though i will say the exception is my savage engine is happiest running around 280 though it makes me nervous. plenty of smoke and never had a problem...just seems very hot to me. all the others are in the 240-260 range

what do you mean by "drill it?"

that certainly works... i use the 5 tank method, first tank idle only, 2nd tank 1/4 throttle in long, wide loops, then 1/2 and loops, 1/2 in figure 8's, then 3/4 etc....until it's ready to tune. there's a ton of methods for breaking engines in, basicially you want to keep the fuel mixture very rich and run it very slow to start, gradually leaning and revving slightly higher on each successive tank. some engines break in faster, some slower - after a while you can get a feel for when things are starting to free up inside.

[TMAXX JUNKIES]

WELL I FORGOT THAT IT WAS NOT COMPLEATLY BROKEN IN YET IF IT GET TO HOT DURING BREAK IN BE CAREFUL LET IT COOL GO EASY ON THE THROTTLE IT GOES FASTER YOU JUST CAN'T RUSH BREAKIN OTHERWISE YOUR MOTOR WILL NOT LAST AS LONG. AND I HOPE YOU ARE USING AFTER RUN OIL WHEN YOU ARE DONE !!IF YOU DON'T HAVE AFTER RUN OIL WD40 WORKS TO . IF YOU DONOT DO THIS THE CASTOR OIL IN THE FUEL MIXTURE WILL SOLIDIFY AND GUM UP AND YOUR MOTOR WILL NEED TO BE TAKEN APART AND CLEANED .JUST A FEW DROPS OR A COUPLE OF SHOTS OF WD4O AND TURN THE MOTOR FOR ABOUT 20 SEC TO SPREAD IT AROUND.YA KNOW OLD SCHOOL I WAS WONDERING WHAT DRILL IT MEANT ALSO SOUNDS BAD WHEN BREAKING IN A MOTOR. ALSO MY AXIAL RUNS AT ABOUT 175-180 ALSO I TRIED VARIOUS THINGS AND THATS JUST WHERE THE TEMP. WANTS TO STAY BUT LIKE YOU SAID DOES NOT SEEM TO AFFECT THE MOTOR .
150 ish should be fine for break-in, once the engine is fully broken in, the temps will go up. Remember, these engines are air-cooled, so as it sits there and idles, temps will go up slightly. once it's moving around and air starts moving over the cooling heads, it keeps the temps in check.

I agree with Tmaxx, though i will say the exception is my savage engine is happiest running around 280 though it makes me nervous. plenty of smoke and never had a problem...just seems very hot to me. all the others are in the 240-260 range

what do you mean by "drill it?"

that certainly works... i use the 5 tank method, first tank idle only, 2nd tank 1/4 throttle in long, wide loops, then 1/2 and loops, 1/2 in figure 8's, then 3/4 etc....until it's ready to tune. there's a ton of methods for breaking engines in, basicially you want to keep the fuel mixture very rich and run it very slow to start, gradually leaning and revving slightly higher on each successive tank. some engines break in faster, some slower - after a while you can get a feel for when things are starting to free up inside.

[Microbe]

I got after run oil but where do I put it ?

[OldSchoolRC]

i usually put 2 drops down the carb throat and another in the glow plug hole.

[Microbe]

do I have to do it only when I finish my break in and like when I'm not gonna use it for a while or is it better to put some everytime I stop it.

[Microbe]

bump

I just started to break it I used the sheet I had but with 2 secs accel then stop my engine kept stopping so I let it run for like half of the tank then I did the 2 sec accel and it didn't stop also temp didnt go higher than 160

Question : I started to break it with fuels from my uncle but if I use my fuel for the other tanks is it fine ? It might sound like a stupid question but I dont wanna take any risk. His fuel is 20% mine too but his fuel is magnum fuel and mine is thunder blue does it rly matter ?

[TMAXX JUNKIES]

AS FOR AFTER RUN OIL YOU SHOULD USE IT EVERY TIME YOU ARE DONE LIKE AT THE END OF THE DAY NOT AFTER EVERY TANK. AS FOR THE FUEL YOU SHOULD MOST DEF. USE THE SAME PERCENTAGE FUEL AS FOR USING DIFFERANT BRANDS I HAVE NEVER HAD TO FACE THAT BUT I WOULD NOT RECOMEND IT OLDSCHOOL YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS ONE I DON'T WANT TO GIVE FALSE INFO.

HOW MANY TANKS DO YOU HAVE THREW IT? YOU SHOULD BE CLOSE TO SOME BUT KICKIN FUN BUT NOW THE GOOD THING ABOUT TRUGGIES IS THEY ARE TOUGH !! AND THE ONLY STUPID QUESTION IS ONE NOT ASKED I ONLY WISH I HAD A SITE LIKE THIS ONE WHEN I STARTED . I ALMOST THREW IN THE TOWEL THE FIRST DAY I WAS SO FRUSTRATED BUT IM GLAD I DID'NT I LOVE THIS SPORT .
bump

I just started to break it I used the sheet I had but with 2 secs accel then stop my engine kept stopping so I let it run for like half of the tank then I did the 2 sec accel and it didn't stop also temp didnt go higher than 160

Question : I started to break it with fuels from my uncle but if I use my fuel for the other tanks is it fine ? It might sound like a stupid question but I dont wanna take any risk. His fuel is 20% mine too but his fuel is magnum fuel and mine is thunder blue does it rly matter ?

[DaveC]

do I have to do it only when I finish my break in and like when I'm not gonna use it for a while or is it better to put some everytime I stop it.

If you won't run your engine again soon (within a few days) you should ARO it. If you live ina cold damp region and you get lots of humidity, use it after all running, and make sure to dump your fuel tank.

Changing fuel won't hurt a thing. Even if you change %, just retune it. Going to extremes of % change may require a head shim change, but usually you will be fine unless you are running 40% in a .12. :eek:

[Microbe]

ok sorry for not posting for so long I was busy buying a stupid starter box for 80$ without any pin to put my car on and in other words it sux.... because I couldnt manage to start my car with the pull start, my glow plug ignitor arent powerful enough I need to buy one with a rechargeable battery.


well my friend came over and we managed to start it, after like 5 mins of doing some 3 secs accel, the car stopped and we heard a noise, the flywheel got stuck again... So yeah we tried putting some after oil we removed the head and directly put 2 drops of afteroil, then we had to remove the engine and remove the clutch and unstuck the flywheel by hitting it with a hammer. Then when we came to pull start it it stucked again. So yeah toomorow I'll try your method oldschool, I'll unstuck the flywheel then remove the glowplug put after oil and I'll pull start it for like 5 mins so the piston gets a bit smaller then I'll put back the glow plug and try to start it hopefully it'll work.

As mfor the glow plug ignitor it's strange IDK but I have 2 of them and after I used them a bit when I come to use them again the other day the BATTERY IS DEAD ALREADY.... like wtf.... well I'll give u news toomorow hopefully toomorow everything will go fine and I'll be able to break in the engine.

[OldSchoolRC]

i hear you, i had my first nitro car for about 2 months before i finally got it running. it was very frustrating at first, and it went for nearly a month without it starting at all, but I finally got it figured out.

As far as fuel, i have never used a name brand at all - i use S&W fuel for planes that i get at my LHS - much lower price than the others, works fine and i have never had a problem. as long as it has the right % of oils in it, i just go for what cheapest.

Break in should be run on 1 type of fuel at the same nitro content as much as possible. Anytime you switch either fuels or nitro content, you'll need to re-tune a bit.

Can you take a pic of your flywheel set-up? If you heard a noise and the truck stopped dead with a locked engine/flywheel, there's a problem somewhere - not good.

[Microbe]

I think the noise came from the pull start that kind of went in well 1 of my friend saw it suddenly go in. The flywheel setup is fine.... it has nothing to do with it, what I find weird is that I started the break in and now it stucks, also when the engine stopped, the truck was on idle, my friend was just going foward by turning left and right and suddenly it stopped.....


I can't really take a pic but if your method doesnt work oldschool I'll take one. Tell me exactly where you want the pic....

[Microbe]

ok, I did what you said oldschool and when I was pull starting it it stucked like 3 times, 2 times I just moved the 3 black things of the clutch and it got unstuck and the last time it stucked I had to hit it with a hammer.


Anyway, do you find it normal that I have to hit it with a hammer to get it out. Can it be the flywheel that doesnt fit with the engine should I get a new one ? What should I do now, my uncle said it was stucking like that because there was still fuel in... Is there a way to contact you do you have msn or aim oldschool because I want to get done with this today....

EDIT : I found u a pic, my cluth/flywheel looks like that http://www.buggy-sport.info/images/pics/ultimateracing/2007/clutch1.jpg

btw, the flywheel is used a lot, doesn't the flywheel need to be balanced ? Maybe that's why....

edit again : here's what I found on a forum a guy had the same prob and he did what u said oldschool "After letting the oil sit for about an hour or two the piston eventually came loose. I did two more tanks and everything seemed ok. Thanks for everybodies help. I really appreciate it" It's been like 2-3 hours so I'll go try it now.

I will tell u exactly how mine looks theres the collet(http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=OFN10330) then the flywheel(http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=OFN10040) then the whatever its called inm english then the 3 shoe for the clutch then the thing with the gear and 2 bearings and thats it.

Also there might be something missing too, like theres no spacer at all.....

[TMAXX JUNKIES]

Wow Hitting The Motor Is The Last Thing You Want To Do If You Want You Can Email Me And Maby I Can Help Because I'm Not Really Getting A Clear Picture Of What You Are Describing Pm Me Here On This Site And Send Me Your Phone Number And I Will Try And Get You Threw This Without Beating On The Motor With A Hammer.

[Microbe]

I'm happy because I know the real problem, it's totally the engine, the piston and sleeve are too tight. The flywheel is fine :) so now I just need to warm up the block before starting it or warm the block to unstuck the piston.

TO TMAXX JUNKIES : When it was stuck the piston was at his highest point, but then I pull started it without the glow plug and Ive looked everytime it got stuck the piston was at his highest or lowest point. After run oil didnt seem to help anyway it's because it was pretty cold. So yeah I'll try what you said, to warm the block before to unstuck it....


I'll keep you guys updated.

[OldSchoolRC]

aha! that will go away as the engine breaks in. Fear not grasshopper, life will be better soon!

[TMAXX JUNKIES]

Well I Hope The Phone Call Helped . It Helped Me Kinda Of Get A Better Understanding Of What Was Going On. Just As The Great Guys Here At The Fourm Suspected Tight Pinch And New Motor Blues . This Is A Great Place For Some Tech Info I Am Learning Everytime I Sign In!! Have Fun Bashin:-)

[Microbe]

wow warming up the block didnt seem to help that much and it's pretty hard to keep it warm, anyway I contacted dynamite, I'll see what they say.

[TMAXX JUNKIES]

Well Like I Said Might Want To Think Roto Start Or Get A Blank Backplate And A High Torque Bump Box. I Just Bought Mine And Should Have It By The End Of The Week It's The Ofna With Dual 775 Motors In It Because I Have 2 Lrp .28 Motors And One Axial .28 Rr Motor To Break In And I Dont Want To Fool With Pull Start .

[Microbe]

theres no roto start on my engine. Dynamite says 2-3 days but its been a week and they didn't answer me, I'll call them.

[TMAXX JUNKIES]

Any Luck Getting It Going?

[Microbe]

I sent them the engine last week, I just called them they said it's done so I should receive it thisweek or next one :) sorry for not giving any news... I was busy on baja forums ;) hehe yeah I've bought a baja ! Bought it from a guy in bc I will receive it friday of next week. I JUST CANT WAIT. I got a very good deal on it, 600$ runned 1 tank not even a scratch I saw pics theres not even 1 scratch on the frame hehe, its a RTR but whatever I'll upgrade it hehe :)

As for the engine they received it on the 15th and they shipped it back the same day, as I thought there were metal pieces in the engine that was the problem. So yeah in conclusion : It stucked the first times because the piston n sleeve were very tight, then it kept getting stucked after all this because of the metal pieces. What I did wrong was to not do the break-in the same day.

[Microbe]

Break-in is done woot now I also have my baja but I like both. Thanks for all the help.

[Greg B]

Loosen the glow plug a bit. This will let some compression escape and will allow you to yank the rope a bit better.


Greg B.